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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 20:19:15 GMT
I wish I had as much confidence in Giggs as you do Jamie and I completely get how you'd like to skip the next stage of another 1-2-3 years of managerial mix and match and go straight to Giggs. But Moyes was supposedly a long-term replacement too and that didn't go down well... then Van Gaal with a short-term rebuilding job, which looking at the team is far from complete, so giving Giggs the job now would destabilize the club further in my opinion. We need to make sure we have reached some type of consistency in order to be able to take risks with an unexperienced manager. I'd give him the job now until the end of the season and see how it goes, but ultimately I'd like to see someone take over and finish the overhaul, bring a few years of stability and then see if and how ready Giggs is. That's the thing though. I think the thing LVG has done really well is the rebuilding job. Look around the squad. It's full of quality in nearly every position. He just isn't getting the best out of what is a good squad of players. As far as I'm concerned we're a top striker, a CB and a RB away from having a pretty complete squad. Good mixture of youth and experience. Giggs would start in a much better position squad wise than the previous 2. I stand by what I thought at the beginning of the season. This squad is capable of challenging for titles. Maybe not winning them quite yet but challenging definitely. It's LVG who is failing to get the best out of them for me. |
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Post by Jie on Jan 24, 2016 20:33:29 GMT
Yeah we do have a decent squad, lately I've been thinking though how much real quality do we have. Quality as in someone that can straight up walk into a Real/Barca/Bayern/PSG squad. We used to have teams from which you can easily pick at least 4 people that can walk into the top clubs and now looking at our squad it's only De Gea. Smalling and Martial would be just shy of that. Which in all leads me to believe that the rebuilding job is not done yet and maybe it would be beneficial for us to get Guardiola/Mourinho who would be able to get these final touches. And then once Giggs takes over he would have a ready made squad that he would just have to maintain, easing on the pressure in his first years as a manager.
That of course is highly hypothetical cause for all we know Van Gaal may keep his job beyond this season.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 21:37:48 GMT
I think we have plenty of players who we've failed to see at their best though. I'd be very interested to see players like Martial, Memphis, Herrera, Mata, Januzaj and even Rooney under a manager who'd give them more freedom to show what they're capable of. Looking at our best possible 11 with everybody fit right now and playing at their best. I'd go for something like this: De Gea Valencia Smalling Blind Shaw Schneiderlin Herrera Schweinsteiger Lingard Rooney Martial I think that side on it's day is good enough to compete with what the premier league has to offer. I wouldn't swap our keeper for anyone in the world. In Smalling we have an improving, commanding central defender (albeit one who's out of form lately) and at left back we have someone who will be the best LB in the World and who I also wouldn't swap for any other LB.
Schneiderlin is widely regarded as one of the best in his position. Herrera, as we have seen has tonnes of ability in the right system and formation but needs the freedom to perform. Schweinsteiger is the captain of the German national side and has produced a mixed bag in terms of performances so far for us. Times he's looked like the class act he's been and others he's looked a little lost but he will be better next season after having a year to get used to English football.
Lingard is literally just lacking a little bit more composure and could maybe do with strengthening but is showing all the signs of turning into a very good player. Martial is a beast, nuff said. Rooney is hit and miss but has shown the last few weeks he still retains some ability but as I've stated before and I think most of us are in agreement that a top centre forward is definitely something we need.
That's a good football side on paper who could and should challenge for the league and compete in Europe. It also doesn't include the likes of Mata, Memphis, Januzaj, Pereira. etc. who have been and still remain much coveted players.
Add a top striker, a quality partner for Smalling and a right back and I think you've got a squad/team capable of causing problems for anyone...domestic or European.
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Post by matt on Jan 24, 2016 21:49:19 GMT
It's LVG who is failing to get the best out of them for me. Now that's a perfect summary of what we're going through. And that's exactly why I want him gone right now. He is trying to force a system on his players, while he should be building a system for his players. He is an excellent tactitian in my books, and this has been showed in the big games. But he is a terrible manager. The sooner he is gone, the better. We can't do much worse at this point. At least try to attack, produce some football. Giggs, Phelan and Rene would be a fine combination imo, at least till the end of the season. That being said, a part of me is still convinced that Mourinho is the right fix for this team. And somehow I also believe he would settle in much better than at previous clubs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 21:57:53 GMT
21 players out, 7 in, people should stop and think about that a minute, like you say the net spend comes way down from the figures touted. But that's some fucking clear out, and takes some time to restock throughout all levels.
We still don't have a nailed on spine, Smalling has stepped up, but we're still nowhere near dominant, competitive or skilful, or pacy, enough in midfield and up top. So priorities in the Summer are still CB, CM and CF to even compete for top spot over a full season. And it's going to get expensive for real this time; Stones, Barkley and a whoever up front is best part of 150m.
Even Mane with the other two isn't much cheaper assuming you shove Martial up front. I do wonder just how long the Glazers will keep digging in now Daddy isn't around and things aren't so smooth as they once were.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 22:02:57 GMT
I think CM can wait a season or 2 depending on what happens with Basti/Carrick. A central defender and a striker are absolute no brainers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 22:09:29 GMT
I consider both those stand-in players, albeit quality. Fellaini will be sold in the Summer, and he does need replacing asap, he's just sub-standard. That should bring in 15m I spose.
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Post by matt on Jan 24, 2016 22:11:13 GMT
A central defender and a striker are absolute no brainers. Yeah also my opinion. But it pisses me off we're not going to reinforce those areas this window, because we desperatly need it to make that push for a top-4 finish. But I can understand we might want to let the next manager decide who he wants instead of letting LVG select the player if he is to leave. But the timing is just so wrong, it's frustrating  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 22:19:15 GMT
Carrick is now a stand in with his age but Basti should have a few good years in him, he's only 31. He's actually stayed relatively injury free this season, I hope he can continue that next season.
Depends what formation we use going forward as well I guess and what way we use Herrera and Schneiderlin. I'd personally like to see us go back to 3 in midfield with Schneiderlin sitting deep and Herrera and 1 other in front. Actually brings back the old conversation of converting Rooney to more of a midfielder if we do go 4-3-3 and buy a new striker.
I can't deny that a powerful and aggressive, attack minded midfielder wouldn't go amiss. Schneiderlin deep with Herrera and Barkley in front sounds pretty good to me. Just don't think it's as much a necessity as other positions right now unless we offload a few.
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Post by Red Or Dead on Jan 24, 2016 22:50:23 GMT
I'm just getting fed up with defending this week in week out, only for Smalling and DDG we would be shipping at least three a game.Everyone else seems shaky as fuck and like they are making it up as they go along, what are we doing in training, these guys look like they are strangers, or is it that the tactics are alien to them?
I have no answers as to what we should do anymore...I am that low at the moment.
Ok, chin up and believe is getting pretty repetitive even for me nowadays.
I still have hope and belief that we are now too big and established to let this slump continue, but am fretting at every fixtures now, especially next week away to Derby, banana skin written all over.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 23:04:54 GMT
I would make one excuse for the defence in that it has been completely and utterly decimated by injuries. There's no way you're able to prepare for the sort of problems we have back there right now. It all started with Shaw who I still maintain is as big a miss as anyone. He was a real threat down that left hand side at the beginning of the season. Then you've got Rojo and Jones who have barely been fit all season. Valencia gets a serious injury and now you've got Darmian out and even our makeshift full back, Young out for a considerable time. At the beginning of the season the defence was performing really well when everyone was fit.
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Post by Red Or Dead on Jan 24, 2016 23:16:29 GMT
Agreed.....but from there onwards we are like a Sunday morning patchwork team of late instead of professional players.So what exactly are we practicing in training?
Nobody has a clue where to run to receive the ball, nobody knows where/who to pass it to,then it ends up with nobody moving into any sort of dangerous position and then guess what? it goes sideways or backwards again.
Defensively the same occurs with the game passing them by in midfield because of not breaking from formation which in turn puts pressure on the back four...
Static crap that gets us nowhere unless the opposition makes a mistake and then claim that our overwhelming possession forced that mistake...fuck off!
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Post by spens1 on Jan 25, 2016 0:36:29 GMT
it wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that he chose that pathetic excuse for a footballer called maraoune fellaini would it now. no, of course it wouldn't because for that senile old prick of a manager we have, he's the best thing since sliced bread i honestly lose hope when i hear shit like this What about the rest of the squad. With the exception of de Gea, and to a lesser extent Smalling, all players are below par. not everyone, but there is a lot of mediocre players, and i mean a lot (Young, Fellaini, Jones to an extent, Rooney nowadays) and just plain injury prone players (Valencia) Arsenal had a similar problem and they cleared out the deadweight and got talent in, real talent, now they look like they could win the title again (i mean we would have to do better than them because Wenger is still Wenger) |
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Post by spens1 on Jan 25, 2016 0:37:41 GMT
yeah we're shit phone Pep now and at least get that secure, looks like we won't be having champions league football next season though we need to sack Van Gaal, think that much is pretty obvious Do you think that Pep would bother without having a definite Champion's league spot, or at least play-off spot? for the right money, possibly also he is a manager who seems to enjoy the challenge. We could still finish 4th if we somehow got a Fergie/Ryan Giggs duo temporarily till the end of the season i would think |
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hakam
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Post by hakam on Jan 25, 2016 7:22:17 GMT
I wish I had as much confidence in Giggs as you do Jamie and I completely get how you'd like to skip the next stage of another 1-2-3 years of managerial mix and match and go straight to Giggs. But Moyes was supposedly a long-term replacement too and that didn't go down well... then Van Gaal with a short-term rebuilding job, which looking at the team is far from complete, so giving Giggs the job now would destabilize the club further in my opinion. We need to make sure we have reached some type of consistency in order to be able to take risks with an unexperienced manager. I'd give him the job now until the end of the season and see how it goes, but ultimately I'd like to see someone take over and finish the overhaul, bring a few years of stability and then see if and how ready Giggs is. That's the thing though. I think the thing LVG has done really well is the rebuilding job. Look around the squad. It's full of quality in nearly every position. He just isn't getting the best out of what is a good squad of players. As far as I'm concerned we're a top striker, a CB and a RB away from having a pretty complete squad. Good mixture of youth and experience. Giggs would start in a much better position squad wise than the previous 2. I stand by what I thought at the beginning of the season. This squad is capable of challenging for titles. Maybe not winning them quite yet but challenging definitely. It's LVG who is failing to get the best out of them for me. Even if you have all the ingredients, you can't bake the cake if you have no power. The fact that we have good players or mediocre ones is only part of the issue. There is no trust in the manager. This is evident. The players do not like the way he is running things and this is reflected on the pitch. Changing the manager is a must if we are to have any hope of a top 4 spot, and I am sorry to say that I disagree with the notion that Giggs is a good option. It was only last year that he was playing alongside Rooney and co. He will never have the same influence and authority as SAF had. We need an experienced manager who will be able to control things, on and off the pitch. Sadly, they do not grow on trees. Pep is the obvious choice. I would love to have him, but, he is on his way to Man City. Jose is an exceptional manager, and who will deliver, but he is crazy. I know that SAF will never return, even as interim manager, although I believe that he is the only one who can rescue us from this dire situation. |
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