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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 17:00:23 GMT
How to sum that up? Shite first 20 minutes, Arsenal were superb though and good value for their lead. Improved after and got a foothold in the game, Martial and Schweinsteiger both missing good chances which could've been the catalyst of an improbable fight back. But to be honest the game was gone by that point and Arsenal slackened allowing us to get on the ball as they didn't need to keep playing at that high an intensity.
People will blame team selection, in particular the midfield but I think Arsenal would've done the same to us in that opening 20 even if Schneiderlin was in there. Darmian, who's been a rock this season got tore a new 1 by Sanchez as well.
I'm far more concerned about the form of Memphis and Rooney and LVG's insistence on playing them. Even in recent weeks while we've been playing well as a team, these 2 have been poor. Memphis is young and still adjusting, I think he'll come good but he's got a lot to learn and needs to be benched. Rooney, I fear is declining and there's no way back for him, he'll continue to pop up every once in a while and put in a quality display and score some goals but I don't see him being a consistent performer for us, he's been atrocious all season.
I'm not going to get carried away with today's defeat, shit happens. If you said we'd be 3rd, 2 points off the top at this stage of the season I'd have taken it and overall there's still some very promising signs from this team. Just need to show what we're made of in the next couple of games which don't get any easier.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 17:05:46 GMT
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Post by Jie on Oct 4, 2015 17:16:17 GMT
Well... that happened.
It starts to bother me that we always start our games poorly and turn up in the second half. It didn't lead to anything in the past games, but today they managed to score 3 past us by the time we got to the good part and there was no turning back.
I'm surprised though, I thought even if we lose it's not going to be by much or just a lucky goal by them, but it has to be said that we were outplayed by Arsenal today. Injuries aside, we still could and should have done better. I'm imagining Van Gaal is pissed right now.
Second half was decent, no complains there - Fellaini put in a shift and Bastian was a real warrior, still not creating enough up front, partially because Rooney is just a waste of space there.
Good timing for the international break, hopefully the players will get some rest and we'll keep moving.
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Post by Dave on Oct 4, 2015 17:27:11 GMT
Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal speaking to Sky Sports: “When you start like that you can never win a game, we lost every duel, every second ball, not tight on their midfielder, and they can play they are a fantastic team when you let them give them that space it is difficult.
“That was the worse United have been under me, we were not able to give a normal performance.
“I have never seen that of my team, that is the question I put to my players. You can not solve that now, a lot of emotion and I am emotional as well.
“I could not change anything, if it was just one player then I can take measure but it was more than half of my team who were not doing what we had agreed in our game plan.
“I am shocked, you don’t expect it, we were top of the league, won last four matches and have to protect our position, possible against Arsenal. Way we had started, so without emotion. Not expect that, difficult to understand and will have to look for the reasons."
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Post by matt on Oct 4, 2015 17:30:27 GMT
I'm far more concerned about the form of Memphis and Rooney and LVG's insistence on playing them. Even in recent weeks while we've been playing well as a team, these 2 have been poor. Memphis is young and still adjusting, I think he'll come good but he's got a lot to learn and needs to be benched. Rooney, I fear is declining and there's no way back for him, he'll continue to pop up every once in a while and put in a quality display and score some goals but I don't see him being a consistent performer for us, he's been atrocious all season. I agree completely. But I won't judge Depay this season, nor put all the blame on Rooney. I think the whole side is a bit "unbalanced". I am still waiting to see us put in a truly good performance, with high intensity and tempo. I am starting to have reservations about LVG's approach at this stage. I admire what he has been doing so far as you know, but right now the time has come to speed it up a little and become a more aggressive and fluid team. LVG is putting way too much emphasis on tactical matters at the expense of the individual piece of brilliance some players could bring. Today's first 20min were a desperatly marvellous example of LVG's tactical rigidity for the sake of it. His team sleection was wrong, with the players more focused on their positioning than their direct opponents. The way Arsenal scored their three goals was a joke. And they could have scored two more at least without meeting any defensive resistance. They only needed a couple of runners to break our lines (Walcott and Sanchez in this case) and they torn us to pieces. Usually I never put blame on managers. But wake up Louis, something isn't right with your approach at this stage. It's funny because I always thought SAF was relying too much on his players's confidence and capabilities at the expense of a solid tactical approach (as showed by his poor late CL campaigns), but it's the other way round with LVG: everything is structured, meant ot be "perfect", but there is no fluidity, no real imagination, creativity or moments of brilliance. It's like an AI in video games, except we all know that at some point you discover how to beat the AI, don't we? |
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Post by Hammy on Oct 4, 2015 17:40:04 GMT
What can I say. Our first major test this season which turned into a big reality check for us. It looked from the off that our instructions were to play the slow possession game but that was torn to shreds by the speed and ferocity that Arsenil attacked us with and we just didn't know how to react.
I thought fatigue would play it's part but it looked like we were more mentally drained than physical from the start. No movement, no tracking back, nobody looking for space, nobody prepared to tackle and the list goes on. It's true in the second half we stepped it up a bit but I put that down more to Arsenil backing off having a 3-0 advantage than us finally getting our shit together and it worked for them because other than the Martial effort we were reduced to looking for crumbs than making clear chances for ourselves.
Normally after a game like today there's still some positives but today I can't think of one. I would of preferred to have seen Schneiderlin start today but I couldn't really complain starting with Basti and Carrick. In the end Carrick had a stinker and Basti wasn't his usual influential self but Schneiderlin stayed on the bench and to make matters worse VG decided to play with Fellaini as our playmaker. An absolutely ludicrous decision. Bringing on Wilson with 7 minutes to go when we're 3-0 down another shit decision. Leaving Rooney on for 90 minutes another shit decision, starting with Memphis another shit decision. Injuries did have a part to play today with the exclusion of players like Herrera and Rojo (at least I hope they're injured) but it's still no excuse with the performance we seen today.
Anyone know if Pereira was injured or was he just dropped from the squad?
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Post by howAREya on Oct 4, 2015 17:42:03 GMT
Not a whole pile he can say after that. Arsenal were just clinical on the afternoon. They done to us what we've done to them numerous times in the past. Winning without dominating the game and just been ruthless at the right times. Goals win you games not possession and they were more efficient with the ball in our third than we were in theirs.
Game was over after 20 minutes, Martial's chance before HT might have set their nerves jangling but we will never know.
Everton away, which hasn't been easy of late is going to be all the more important after today and agreeing with Van Gaal on one thing is the break isn't the best thing for preparations for that game.
So we'll have to hope they all come back injury free and not tired and much much fresher than today.
No excuses
Ahead to that game I'd have to bench Rooney. Usually struggles against them anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 17:54:23 GMT
That whole United performance was like when you shit your pants inexplicably and have to go home embarrassed and change. Bad day, etc. That is all. :lol:
Good to see VG not make excuses. First rule of competitive sport - be competitive or fuck off home because you'll get beaten. Got what they deserved today.
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tr0y
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Post by tr0y on Oct 4, 2015 18:06:22 GMT
There's not a lot left to say, and to be honest I can't be fucked to say a lot right now. Horrible performance, but that match will not define our season. How we react to that defeat, however, will. I'm struggling for positives. We can learn a lot from that defeat. I feel absolutely drained, but we'll move on.  |
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Post by Hammy on Oct 4, 2015 18:41:53 GMT
Might be good to see VG not making excuses Ed but he has a habit of blaming everyone but himself. It's the managers job to react when things aren't going our way. The only reason Arsenil didn't score 4 or 5 in the first half was because they backed off at 3. Hindsight is easy but it was plain to see we were being overrun but still we kept the same shape (?) Instead of dropping back to at least try to stop them playing.
It's VG that keeps insisting with Memphis even though he's been largely ineffective. It's VG that keeps insisting with Rooney even though he's been woeful all season. It's VG that keeps insisting with Basti even though he's probably played more football in the last month than he did all last season. Yes he's been impressive but against Wolfsburg he looked exhausted when he was taken off. It's VG that keeps insisting on benching Schneiderlin even though he's one of the best in his position if not in European football then at least the PL. It's VG that keeps insisting on playing Mata on the right where too many times the game passes him by. Today it was VG that decided to play with Fellaini in CM, WTF??
It seems to me that VG has his untouchable favorites and his fall guys. Something that should never happen if we really are to be contenders for titles.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 19:02:57 GMT
Don't get me wrong, it's a poor defeat and everyone is to blame for it including the manager but jeez. The bigger issue for me is how we respond, if we go and get pummeled by Everton and City then by all means act like it's the end of the world.
The team is still in a strong position. VG is no moron, he wants to go out on a high so there's no way he's going to stick with people like Rooney and Memphis if they keep underperforming. Complaining about Fellaini is senseless seems he was one of our more effective players when he came on.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 19:06:33 GMT
Being overrun because they weren't even in the same ball park when it came to competing, don't compete - get beat, and that's before you even kick a ball. 1st law of competitive sport. Simple as that. Damage was done in the first 20 minutes when they were stone cold asleep. VG said he would have to look at it closely to get the bottom of it and that's fair comment.
Team selection and options virtually pick themselves so far this season, Mata is fine drifting in and out on the right and been one of our our best performers. Rooney you keep on the pitch because history tells you he needs games before he snaps out of it, Memphis needs games to get used to it, Basti needs games and a less physically demanding more football orientated game was ideal. You can argue the toss about team selection all you want but if the cunts are 3 - 0 down after 20 minutes because they're not competing then it's all irrelevant.
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Post by spens1 on Oct 4, 2015 22:36:01 GMT
fucking disgraceful
i did mention something about not having enough steel in the midfield, this is what happens, i mean we would have been done still but arsenal's midfield is too good for us to play two softish players (i'm sorry, great as they are, both of them aren't exactly hard tacklers and steely mids like Schneiderlin or even Fellaini) ultimately we payed the price for being complacent also. 3 goals in 20 minutes, no excuses for that, we didn't show up. Rooney needs to wake up, why the hell is he in such bad form, i thought by now he would be up and away, even for him this is a bad start.
the midfield we played needs to be saved for the CL were it isn't going to be as physically demanding as such, in the premier league we need at least one of our DM's in. Oh and Depay needs to come off the bench for a bit, no good starting him if he is going to be consistently poor, ease him in.
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Post by alakazam on Oct 5, 2015 0:49:22 GMT
First post here so I'm just going to say this.
I can't wait until this negative manager leaves the club. May 2017 can't come soon enough.
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Post by alakazam on Oct 5, 2015 0:51:53 GMT
First 20 minutes were truly dreadful, we had zero composure. And fair play to Arsenal they smelt blood and went for the jugular.
The way we react to going 1-0 down 2-0 down 3-0 down etc was not good, we have no urgency in our play and the players are made to stick to their positions and pass is sideways and backwards instead of going for Arsenal.
We can't keep going into games acting like we're 3-0 up when in reality the score in 0-0.
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