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Post by Jie on Nov 28, 2015 6:33:49 GMT
Meh, read that interview somewhere else, not really impressed. Even if true, pfff by all means step down, plenty of other players to take your place.
On a completely different note, I'm starting to question what Van Gaal is doing, not in a 'LVG out' way and I know it's way too early and media and blah blah but last season we were all about results and performances didn't matter, but we've spend a bunch of money and I haven't seen enough improvement to leave me convinced.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 7:42:38 GMT
And yet, if we win today, we're top of the league. I agree on the quality of performances, I thought I'd be able to look past it if we keep winning but the PSV game really fucked me off. Sacking him would be nonsensical considering the position we're in but as I said in another thread there's a conversation to be had in the summer on how much further he can take us with just 1 season left on his contract.
I still think we're caught between LVG being too rigid and the players not doing their job though. We all say he isn't giving them enough freedom and he's not allowing them to take risks. But if he comes out after the game and says we played from too deep and didn't take enough risks it dismisses that theory a little.
The issue is that some of the players don't seem to have grasped his philosophy as much as he or we thought. They can't seem to maintain that solidity and dominant possession game as well as taking the risks required to create chances and score goals. Or they're not doing it enough anyway.
When we've got them both right it's been superb to watch and I still think if we took Rooney out of the team we'd have more chance of getting that right but that's also an issue of which I'm getting fucked off with the manager. He's the only person in the world that thinks Rooney still deserves a starting place.
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Post by Red Or Dead on Nov 28, 2015 7:45:18 GMT
At the moment he is roughly 18 months in of a 3 year contract , LVG inherited a sinking ship,so what do you do? You plug the holes first which he has done,then bail out the water which he has done and then you start out to improve the reasons for the leaks, which he has done.
Then the next job is to improve the boat's speed , power and mobility which he hopefully has plans for in the next half of the rebuilding job that he was contracted to do.
I'm not impressed with some of our performances either this season and was feeling what can only be described as disgusted by our dismal performance vs PSV on Wednesday especially in the second half, but I don't believe (contrary to a lot of other fans) that we should be wielding the axe just yet when he is only halfway through doing what he said he would do.
Memphis is 21, Martial is 19 and Lingard is 23 who are meant to be our future attack force (not forgetting Wilson and Adnan both still 20) and are new to the idea of first team football at a huge club which brings expectations and pressure as well as the first two being new to the country and the league.
He has solidified us and is attemting to leave us with a potent youthful attack for the future, fine.
One thing if I may, is if he comes out in pressers saying the midfield were too deep, we didn't do this, we didn't create that, then why is he not out in the technical area telling the midfield to get more forward or instructing players' movements from the sideline? He just sits and writes in his notebook, that's his style granted , but please don't wait until HT or FT to say things are wrong and that the players are not doing what he said to them, things can be changed mid-game as well.
When his time is up and we are still like we are now with no further improvements then is the time to say that he was wrong, but not yet.
Just my humble one to get it off my chest.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 10:16:03 GMT
Can't disagree with most of what you say Brendan. We are only half way through the season and last season our best performances came at the end of the season, the business end if you will. Which has always been a trademark of a United side anyway.
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Post by Jie on Nov 28, 2015 14:20:53 GMT
Oh yeah, I'm not dismissing all that he has done, as far as stabilizing the ship and all that. He and Woody also made some amazing deals, and he seems to have an idea what needs to be done, the players have an idea what has to be done and yet it's somehow not clicking. If this side clicks the potential is great, but realistically we're one or two players short on greatness.
The Rooney thing is complete nonsense, I reeeeeally want to know, maybe some years down the road, what he has to say about that.
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Post by Hammy on Nov 28, 2015 16:25:28 GMT
Was VG the right man for the job? Probably. We needed someone who didn't give a shit who he upset to get us back on track. He culled the team which was definitely needed, he's brought in top class players which was definitely needed but tactically for us i think he's a terrible manager who was never going to match our philosophy as a club from his own.
If we had of been looking for a long term manager I don't think he would of been considered, more because of his track record at his previous clubs than for his success on the pitch. In the last 20 years since he left Ajax I don't think he's lasted longer than 2 years at any given club other than AZ where I think he lasted 3 or 4. That says a hell of a lot about him as a person. People forget he was ousted out of Bayern because of problems with players, club officials and because he played drab football. The same could be said of him at Barca. The same could be said of him as Hollands manager maybe not as much because those fuckers always have infighting but where I will give him credit is he's always left decent teams who have went on to become prominent in world football so that's why I'll grin and bear it hopefully up to the end of the season when hopefully we can welcome señor Pep.
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Post by Red Or Dead on Dec 2, 2015 8:56:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 10:11:52 GMT
 Another 2 + 2 = 12'er. |
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Post by Red Or Dead on Dec 2, 2015 11:42:38 GMT
What's the obsession with the past players?  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 12:50:25 GMT
Because the way we've always played football in this country is not what we're seeing under VG, and it's certainly not the 'United way'. So to ex-players who grew up within British football, and particularly those under Fergie it's like chalk and cheese - the polar opposite in approach and end product. To a point it must be annoying .........and if things don't go well.........then all hell breaks loose.
Which brings us round to; what would they say if the attacking play was faster, more cut throat and we were winning the games we're currently drawing?
Probably begrudgingly accepting that his methods work.
It's certainly not as black and white as Parker paints it.
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Post by Hammy on Dec 2, 2015 14:41:26 GMT
Does no one think they might have a point? Do we look like a team that would give blood for the manager? Do the players look like they're enjoying their football? Do they even look like they know what they have to do? Why do talented players look like they should be playing in a lower league? Other than against Watford this team has showed no heart, why?
I've said before that we can only comment on what we've seen so far and so far it hasn't been great. Will it become so? Who knows? But VG deserves a lot of criticism thrown his way for many of this seasons (and last) performances.
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Post by Splendid Spy on Dec 2, 2015 15:40:18 GMT
It's not just one or two players that have criticized LVG. Not Parker alone. Not just the fans as well. Football pundits, rival supporters everyone can see we are playing negative football and it's all down to the manager.
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Post by Rach1986 on Dec 2, 2015 16:22:50 GMT
Along similar lines I found this article quite an interesting read Manchester United: Can Louis van Gaal's 'boring' team win the title?www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34954731 Manchester United missed the chance to go top of the Premier League after another colourless display from Louis van Gaal's side earned a point at Leicester City on Saturday. United remain in third place behind Manchester City and Leicester - but are they betraying recent Old Trafford traditions with their conservative approach, and can they seriously expect to mount a title challenge playing in this manner? Extracts Is it fair to call Manchester United boring?Are Man Utd fans right to complain?The respected Red Devils fanzine United We Stand recently carried the headline "It's Not What You Do It's The Way That You Do It". After the goalless draw with PSV in the Champions League on Wednesday, some fans on BBC Radio 5 live called for the return of Moyes. ( I mean seriously  ????)On Saturday evening, some others tweeted me to say that even if United won the Premier League it would not be fun or memorable. Look at the table and the fans are not right to complain - look at the action (or lack of it) from their team and they have a case. Of course if United win the title or Van Gaal brings the big prizes back to Old Trafford, he will be delivering the most emphatic response possible. The problem Van Gaal has is that the standards have been set highest of all by Ferguson's reign. Even though he is the man after the man who replaced the great Scot, he is doing little to live up to the reputation given to him when he arrived in 2014 after a successful World Cup with the Netherlands in Brazil. He was the progressive coach who would restore gloss to the 'Theatre of Dreams'. The wait continues. Some may regard the complaints of United's fans as those of a support spoiled by the successes of the past. While this contains an element of truth, they are also driven by the desire to see something that at least resembles what they saw only a few years ago, especially given a vast transfer outlay. (yes)Their hopes were lifted with the arrival of Martial and Memphis Depay for a combined £67m, but one has been dragged down after a bright start and the young Dutchman has struggled to justify his fee. Van Gaal can, and will, stop the complaints by presenting United's fans with silverware - but displays like this one at Leicester, and their manager's almost farcically upbeat view of their supposed domination, does not help his case. Should the old boys be complaining? - It's sooooo easy to talk from the fence - question is why bother ?? What good are they trying to do the club, it's players and the fans by spouting off like this???
What does Ryan Giggs think? - ......... I really like this question and would love to be inside his head to know the real answer I think LVG will deliver some silverware ............ will it calm the fans ?............. will it be the UTD way ? Who knows I also think ultimately LVG was and still is absolutely the right man at the right time - Like Jie I'm also looking forward to reading a few juicy biographies of players when their dressing room days are over to reflect on the Post Fergie-Moyes-LVG transition times at Old Trafford As a fan yes I'm very disappointed by the "watching paint dry" football we have been producing of late and the lack of goals If we look back to last year at this same time after 14 games we were 4th with 25 points GD +8 Today 3rd with 28 points GD +10 It doesn't look greatly improved but we have also been involved in Champions League again this season ............... thanks to LVG and hopefully we can do the job and beat Wolfsburg next week For me the bedding in period is still not yet finished - we've practically overhauled all or most positions on the pitch. I wouldn't write off LVG yet and the players have to stand up and be counted as well But FFS please let's cut the crap with the "insider" press leaks, media mud throwing from ex-players etc. and let's work through this When all said and done LVG is not Fergie and never will be - so why or how should the football be the same ? A lot of work LVG has already put in will only be seen later with the young talent he's brought in and now building them up for the "next manager" |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 16:41:38 GMT
Still think people are being overcritical. I understand the frustrations with performances, it's taken me a while but I've finally broken a little bit with how we're attacking.
That being said, the aim of the game at this point of the season is to still be in the race, which we firmly are. There's no point saying, but if we didn't have De Gea we'd be lower, if Smalling hadn't been so good we'd be lower, the fact is we do have these players in good form and we are 1 point off top spot.
I also think the side is very resilient despite someone saying above they think we lack heart, I don't see that at all. We lack intent in our play going forward but that's not due to a lack of heart imo (besides a couple of games). It's down to the manager expecting the players to adhere to this controlled, measured approach of keeping the ball and not giving away chances as well as being able to be creative and take risks in attack, something which the current group can't do on a regular enough basis and whether that's down to quality of personnel or the setup is up for debate.
I'll just say 1 thing, that if Rooney was dropped, even with this setup I think we'd see much better attacking displays. I'd love to see us just go with all the pace we have at our disposal, dump Rooney and Mata our of the 11.
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Post by Jie on Dec 5, 2015 6:56:27 GMT
I saw someone (don't remember who) saying we are a Ronaldo or Bale away from greatness, I wouldn't go spending crazy money on players but we've seen how dangerous we look when Lingard bursts forward. Imagine having both him and Memphis on the wings with their pace and Martial up front, why not mix in Januzaj there as well. What this system needs is a Robben-esque type of player that can put on a shift and change the tempo of the game and if the youngsters manage to play with more consistency we could be looking at a possession-based but dangerous side.
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