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Post by Hammy on Dec 5, 2015 22:52:16 GMT
I'm not sure about the Glazers telling him they want a possession based side. I'm sure their brief was simply get us back with the elite of European football and it was VG who chose the path to take which I don't have a problem with.
The reason I cannot stand VG was from his time as Barcelona manager. He was so arrogant he didn't listen to any advice that was given to him when it all started going pear shaped and in the end he made himself out to be right clown. I really can see similarities between then and now.
Don't tell me Giggs or even SAF himself hasn't tried to give VG advice on what's expected of him at a club like United but if the fella is so far up his own arse and won't listen then it's going to end badly like it has done for him again and again.
Is it a coincidence he hasn't lasted longer than 2 seasons at any given club in the last 20 years? No way. He cannot take the slightest bit of criticism because he thinks he's streets ahead of anyone when it comes to football which is why I never wanted him at United in the first place.
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Post by spens1 on Dec 5, 2015 22:58:50 GMT
can LVG not, that was boring as hell
our form is pretty bad now
Lingard at least was pretty damn good
but yeah west ham were unlucky not to win, whatever is going on isn't working, we're in 4th now ffs, 4th. That simply isn't going to be good enough this season, i would call Pep for him to take the job next season, LVG has given us a great foundation at least, but he isn't going to take us any further nor is he going to win us the premier league or champions league. With Pep and a good transfer window we could be a chance for both next season.
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Post by spens1 on Dec 5, 2015 23:00:20 GMT
oh and if LVG doesn't understand the 'attack, attack attack' chant, look at all our recent scorelines, their bore draws (emphasis on the bore, we give shit to chelsea for being boring, we're doing the same thing at the moment)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 23:20:05 GMT
Yeah it also begs the question that if that was the case why did we go for Moyes after Fergie..
I would see the reason behind it if correct though, seeing us get played off the park by any Spanish club we came into contact with in Fergie's last few years should've flipped a switch. Learning how to keep the ball better was a must if we were to move forward after him as I believe Fergie was the only man alive who could've continued to get results and win titles with us playing the way we were playing.
Look. Do I believe LVG is the answer to all our problems? No. Do I believe we're going to win the title continuing to attack the way we are? No. Do I believe LVG is the man to take us up a step further back into an elite force in European football? No, not in the time he's got left anyway. But I also don't believe that these were his primary objectives.
He's sorted out the defence despite what people say, putting it down to De Gea and Smalling is nonsense, you don't have comfortably the best defence in the league over the last what? 12 months because 2 players are in superb form. You have it because the overall defensive organisation of the team is generally rock solid. He got rid of a huge amount of deadwood and breathed new life into players who we thought were finished or never going to reach their potential. He's introduced numerous youth players into the first team squad. He's sorted out a midfield that was in seriously bad shape and he has definitely taught us how to retain the ball better (which seems to have come at the sacrifice of quality attacking football, for the timebeing at least). All this adds up to what I believe his job was, which was to stabilise a club that had just had it's worst season for over 20 years after losing one of the greatest and most unique managers of all time.
I don't get irked that people question the mighty LVG, I get irked that people suggest we sack the guy halfway through a season of which we are actually not in bad shape. 3 points off top in the most unpredictable title race in years could lead to the most predictable side being the one left standing at the end IMO.
At times it's very hard to watch (although I maintain today wasn't one of those days). He's got to loosen the reins a little but at the same time the players have got to start putting the ball into the back of the net with more conviction. The fact is we're still picking up results though.
As I stated a couple of weeks back, whatever happens this season, win the title or finish 5th.... LVG's position needs to be looked at. He's achieved his job and with 1 season left after this he's not going to be able to achieve a whole lot more but sacking him halfway through this season is not only nonsensical, it's unfair and more likely to do harm than good.
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Post by Dave on Dec 5, 2015 23:22:17 GMT
The result was dissapointing.
The football was an improvement on previous weeks, the front four was as fluid as it's ever been this season, the tempo and intensity was there from kick off and bar a 20 minute spell in the first half there till the end. At no point did we give up and settle for the point like last week.
There were some nice moments of link up play, Basti/Schneiderlin further forward, we created numerous chances just lacked a clinical finisher. Other dissapointing parts still Darmian can't cross and when he managed a dangerous ball no one was gambling on it, Martial had a flick on again no one there. But you can't put that on LVG for me.
The only thing I'd say about Louis today is that he should have brought Memphis on sooner, he was bright when he came on and he put the shift the other way and made some great interceptions. Martial kept drifting around so we never really had a true striker to focus on so maybe didn't help us. Varela had a good game as well and Lingard just seems to be growing and growing.
One or two changes for Wolfsburg but more of the same and this time we'll hopefully find a finish.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 23:31:09 GMT
No, they wanted United 2.0 , they wanted to take what Fergie had achieved and build on it and thought Fergie's / the club's biggest weakness was the European trophy record. So they wanted a stronger European style that wouldn't find it so difficult in Europe. So they set out with a United 2.0 blue print.. Moyes was supposed to run with what was there and be guided by Phelan and Muelenstein and bed himself in - stupid cunt couldn't even do that right, so he went and wasted a valuable year for all concerned. They jumped on VG when he became available to implement the vision and most, if not all, of what Moyes had earmarked behind the scenes was done the VG way - but it was all earmarked at board level for doing because it needed to be done to take the club forward. Now you've got a very European looking team that doesn't resemble any previous United side ....apart from Dave Sexton's side, and he was sacked for producing football similar to VG - except VG has a clue and isn't as bad as Sexton was, and VG is in the running for domestic honours and got us into Europe last season.  Is VG head strong - yes, very. Stubborn? - yes, probably his biggest failing. Giggs is there as student, that much is clear. So it's going to be down to VG - or those above him, to alter things. Always was going to be the biggest problem with a straight VG ticket. But hey, you hope he wants to go out on a high. |
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Post by spens1 on Dec 6, 2015 0:30:23 GMT
in all honesty, given what he has done for us in terms of discipline, maybe Real Madrid isn't such a bad idea
they need all the help they can get to sort out the mess there.
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Post by Jie on Dec 6, 2015 8:09:06 GMT
I don't get irked that people question the mighty LVG, I get irked that people suggest we sack the guy halfway through a season of which we are actually not in bad shape. 3 points off top in the most unpredictable title race in years could lead to the most predictable side being the one left standing at the end IMO. If we manage to win the league with this football it would be the saddest Premier League season ever :lol: On a serious note, yesterday was pathetic. Now granted injuries and so on took their toll, but we were playing without 10 players last year and we produced some result. This is simply not good enough, not after buying some great players to fill the midfield we've all been bitching about. And by far the most painful thing to watch was the lack of drivel from the players, I am already getting flashbacks from some games under Moyes and that's never a good thing. Anyway, what's done is done, we have a crucial game on Tuesday and I hope to see the fighting spirit back. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 9:42:23 GMT
I still think we'll see some improvements attack wise at some point anyway. You can guarantee he's been working hard to try and rectify it and will continue to do so. Does he want to be remembered as boring Louis Van Gaal who was jeered by United fans for adopting a slow and often painful to watch style of attacking football? I don't think so. We saw the same last season, then for the second part of the season we started to produce some seriously superb football, typical of United in past really as under Fergie we regularly only got going after Christmas. Patience is required.
We're coming up to a very tough and hectic period of football now where I couldn't care less about how well we play. Just need to pick up the points and still be within touching distance at the start of the new year.
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Post by matt on Dec 6, 2015 9:51:07 GMT
- There was improvement in the link-up play, there was a higher tempo, a few sharp moves.
- but there was no finishing, and that isn't down to LVG: Martial, Fellaini, Lingard all missed golden chances that a hungry and aggressive striker would have converted
- but those bright moves/attacks are too scarce and too shy, and that is down to LVG's system and over-cautiousness.
- We have yet again proven we have one of the best defences, and that is down to LVG.
- McNair, Lingard, then Varela come in, showing that you can trust our youth, and that is down to LVG only as many managers wouldn't dare it.
- Mata is getting lost in that system, and that is down to LVG.
- Rooney is dying, and it isn't down to LVG. SAF already wanted to sell him, and we know SAF was the best when it came to judging a player's involvement/commitment.
- Lingard is growing incredibly fast, he was superb yesterday, and I believe LVG is playing his part in developing him so well.
- Midfield is sorted, even when we change it all we still dominate the opposition's and that is down to LVG.
- Attack isn't sorted, we're too light, relying on a dead Rooney and expecting a teenager (don't forget Martial's just turned 20!) to win us the games, and that is down to LVG and his transfers.
No matter what happens at the end of the season, LVG and his staff will need an assessment, Giggs included. There are clearly a few aspects that are not right, and that should have been adressed already. Yet no one can deny the good work LVG has done on a few fronts. But right now, I am getting pissed by the lack of attacking intent and the desire to hammer the opposition. I am pissed by LVG's cowardice, his over-cautiousness when our full-backs don't make a difference or when our midfielders sit both too deep, never adding that extra man when it matters.
I've heard LVG has some big balls? well, time to prove it Louis: do you have the balls to realise you may have been slightly wrong somewhere?
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