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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 23:42:09 GMT
Well, seeing games like el Clasico, I see players (not all) pressing and giving opponents little time on the ball while using their physicality. To be fair, I really don't watch other la liga matches that often so I'm sure it's not an accurate portrayal of the rest of the league. However, I do see more physical players playing in other leagues and I think soon, all leagues will become more physical due to new training methods and technology.
I do think you have a point about Falcao and before I assumed that ADM was suffering due to the toughness of our league. However, I think it has more to do with the fact that his decision making is poor. His passes aren't well coordinated with the runs his teammates are making. And this didn't seem to be an issue when he was in Madrid so I don't know what's happened to him. I've honestly been put off by both players and wouldn't mind seeing either leave if they don't show signs of improvement.
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Post by Nemanja79 on Mar 23, 2015 8:18:04 GMT
I really don't watch other la liga matches that often so I'm sure it's not an accurate portrayal of the rest of the league. It sure is. I'm watching a lot of Bundesliga, Primera, Ligue1 and Serie A matches (which is on a different level now since their downfall contrary to the popular belief). Like I said, it's a myth and I'm standing firmly behind this. Some matches on top of my head like Marseille vs Lyon, Roma vs Juve, Fiorentina vs AC Milan, Schalke vs Bayer, Valencia vs Deportivo, were incredible intensity high. When you see the teams like Bilbao, Malaga, Rayo, Sociedad, Espanyol, Saint Etienne, Augsburg, Eintracht, Sampdoria, Torino, Palermo etc are pressing those "elite" ones and compare that to Premier League middle teams like Newcastle, West Ham, Stoke etc you'll see exactly the same level of intensity, more or less, or even higher. All of them when playing between themselves don't have that much time on the ball, I'd say the percent is even smaller than that in the PL between the clubs on a similar level. The difference that gives you the false impression of physicality is also down to the criteria of refereeing. Players in other leagues are more protected than their colleagues in England, especially more technical ones. If you don't watch other Championships, there is an UCL and Europa League where the standards of refereeing are more evenly matched with other leagues than what is the case in PL. That's also one of the reasons why English clubs are struggling in Europe last couple of years. The other reasons are there as well, like the winter break for everyone except for PL clubs which van Gaal has pointed out in his pre match presser vs Liverpool. Put this all aside and ask yourselves, isn't it logical enough that the fresher teams will show better physical condition than those on the opposite side? I've seen more physical battles in France than in England last and this season for example, Marseille vs Lyon springs to mind instantly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 8:30:23 GMT
You're picking out games between quality sides though, which are bound to be high intensity matches no matter which league you play in. My point is about the way lesser teams in the premier league approach games vs big sides compared to other leagues. I've seen La Liga games in which the lesser opposition give Barca and Madrid so much time on the ball it becomes laughable. You don't get that same luxury against similar opposition in England, you have to work hard to create your own space which allows you time on the ball.
I've watched plenty of Serie A games this year and they are NOT high intensity for the most part unless the top sides are playing each other. The same with German football, can't comment on the French league as I don't watch any of it but I've certainly seen enough Italian and German football as well as Spanish this year to know that they don't all play high intensity football.
I've already stated the difference in terms of how they don't get the protection from refs as much in this country and that is certainly causing a mental issue for Di Maria for me.
That aside his all round game is off, even when he does get a bit of time on the ball he isn't overly convincing.
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Post by Nemanja79 on Mar 23, 2015 8:31:42 GMT
Well, seeing games like el Clasico, I see players (not all) pressing and giving opponents little time on the ball while using their physicality. To be fair, I really don't watch other la liga matches that often so I'm sure it's not an accurate portrayal of the rest of the league. However, I do see more physical players playing in other leagues and I think soon, all leagues will become more physical due to new training methods and technology. I do think you have a point about Falcao and before I assumed that ADM was suffering due to the toughness of our league. However, I think it has more to do with the fact that his decision making is poor. His passes aren't well coordinated with the runs his teammates are making. And this didn't seem to be an issue when he was in Madrid so I don't know what's happened to him. I've honestly been put off by both players and wouldn't mind seeing either leave if they don't show signs of improvement. That's completely true. di Maria is used to play in completely different system, with completely different level of intensity with completely different profiles of players next to him than he has now at United. Real played a high intensity football last season with quick interchanging and more freedom and that was the perfect environment for di Maria to flourish. Also, for his blunders here and there, there was always someone to cover in for him, like Marcelo and Kroos. He was fouled often there as well but the difference was in the criteria of referees. He was brought down here many times but the refs were remained silent and he began to dive more than he was in Madrid in the last two seasons combined. I'm sure, even with all the deficiencies he has, with a new recruitment in the midfield area, he'll get a bit more freedom and will flourish again. When we start to play a more fluid football on a higher tempo he'll be alright.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 8:43:07 GMT
Di Maria is definitely a bit soft and that's what I mean by the physicality. You can tell he doesn't like the idea of someone like Phil Bardsley coming at him (with his feet not his fist) and potentially not winning a free-kick due to the slightest touch. I think the opposition pick up on this. For me he genuinely looks scared when he's involved in a challenge.
Falcao is a different case, he just seems like the speed of the game passes him by, I don't think that is completely down to the league. More down to a lack of confidence and deteriorating ability. No doubt he hasn't been the same player since his injury.
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Post by Nemanja79 on Mar 23, 2015 8:44:09 GMT
I've seen La Liga games in which the lesser opposition give Barca and Madrid so much time on the ball it becomes laughable. Top sides in Spain and Germany are technically better than the top sides in England and others simply can't come close near them to retain the ball. Real, Barcelona and Bayern are a super teams, no one can match them in Europe when it comes to possession, with Atletico, Juventus and PSG a tier below, but even them were showed that they are ahead of the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal at the moment. Barcelona made City look like a schoolboy team in two matches. I've watched plenty of Serie A games this year and they are NOT high intensity for the most part Maybe we've seen the different games but it doesn't matter, this thread is supposed to be for Ronaldo and Bale anyway.
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Post by Nemanja79 on Mar 23, 2015 8:48:12 GMT
Di Maria is definitely a bit soft and that's what I mean by the physicality. You can tell he doesn't like the idea of someone like Phil Bardsley coming at him (with his feet not his fist) and potentially not winning a free-kick due to the slightest touch. I think the opposition pick up on this. For me he genuinely looks scared when he's involved in a challenge. Falcao is a different case, he just seems like the speed of the game passes him by, I don't think that is completely down to the league. More down to a lack of confidence and deteriorating ability. No doubt he hasn't been the same player since his injury. With that I agree especially about Falcao, but for di Maria he looks scared because he knows now that he won't get the fouls he was getting in Spain and that is down to the refs. This league needs to change in that aspect a bit IMO and to adjust its level more closer to the rest of Europe. If not, I can see many English clubs struggling again. The physics doesn't mean much in that case, it's only a deficient.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 8:57:55 GMT
Of course they're technically superior as I've already said but that doesn't deny the fact that they're also allowed an easy game by some opposition. I'm not suggesting for one minute that Hull have more of a chance of beating Barcelona than lets say.. Granada. But they wouldn't sit back and allow them time on the ball. They'd attempt to ruffle their feathers with a few strong challenges and would attempt to press them. They'd get their arses handed to them on a platter but there'd be seemingly more effort.
Serie A still looks very poor on the whole to me, I bet on a lot of football, when that includes a game from a different European league I regularly switch it on. Unless I'm watching a game involving Roma or Juventus I've not been remotely impressed. There's no intensity and they also look technically very poor. Definitely one of the worst leagues to watch and I've seen plenty of games from leagues such as Belgium, Switzerland and even Austria this season!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 9:04:15 GMT
Di Maria is definitely a bit soft and that's what I mean by the physicality. You can tell he doesn't like the idea of someone like Phil Bardsley coming at him (with his feet not his fist) and potentially not winning a free-kick due to the slightest touch. I think the opposition pick up on this. For me he genuinely looks scared when he's involved in a challenge. Falcao is a different case, he just seems like the speed of the game passes him by, I don't think that is completely down to the league. More down to a lack of confidence and deteriorating ability. No doubt he hasn't been the same player since his injury. With that I agree especially about Falcao, but for di Maria he looks scared because he knows now that he won't get the fouls he was getting in Spain and that is down to the refs. This league needs to change in that aspect a bit IMO and to adjust its level more closer to the rest of Europe. If not, I can see many English clubs struggling again. The physics doesn't mean much in that case, it's only a deficient. That's what I said in my original comment (about Di Maria)! :lol: He knows he won't get the protection from the refs in this country that he did in Spain, that to me is him shirking the physical battle.
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Post by Nemanja79 on Mar 23, 2015 9:24:58 GMT
Yeah, it is actually What I'm on about is that he should be more protected by the refs as well as players similar to him. Yesterday we have seen some potential career ending challenges which weren't sanctioned appropriately. But here, fans go on about a lot how some player "needs to bulk up a bit" or "have a boxing and taekwondo lessons" to deal with a naughty bastards in the Prem. That just is stupid as it comes and the FA is the main culprit for this. That's one of the reasons why many flair players are struggling here.
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Post by Nemanja79 on Mar 23, 2015 18:10:56 GMT
It's began!
And are bikes in Madrid much more expensive than the cars?
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Post by Nemanja79 on Mar 23, 2015 18:23:02 GMT
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Post by matt on Mar 23, 2015 19:34:49 GMT
Well, the results on the European stage have clearly shown that the English league is being left behind at the minute and needs proper rebuilding.
But while I think the league is weaker, I paradoxically think it is a lot more demanding than other major leagues. People often talk about "physicality", but I think that what is meant with this word is more related to intensity and aggressivity rather than pure "muscles" and "strength".
I have always been watching many leagues, and I have never found the same level of intensity, aggressivity, and pressing anywhere else. That's imo a defining feature of the BPL. But the reason why the league is so demanding is also because most teams don't have the technical ability to retain the ball smartly and play a more intelligent type of football. Too much emphasis is put on resisting and facing the physical demands of the league. And that is blantantly obvious on the European stage where those physical attributes are turned useless by a more intelligent approach of football (Barcelona's little dancers have kept showing it in the last few years when facing the strong and athletic English teams).
It's very much a vicious spiral. And that's why I am so keen on LVG: I believe he is the one who can both answer and respond to the physical demands of the league, while developping a European approach with more focus on ball-retention and smart movements. I see LVG as the man able to create that hybrid identity to challenge on domestic and European soil.
Each league goes through highs and lows. Not so long ago, Germany was suffering, and Bayern were no where to be seen in Europe. Barcelona/Madrid went through a very bad spell some 10 years ago or so. And England had United/Chelsea/Liverpool terrorising anything that came at them around 2005-2008. Football evolves all the time, and now the time has come for England to wake up and adapt, or sink slowly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 23:22:01 GMT
Survival of the fittest... I like it.
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Post by spens1 on Mar 24, 2015 0:44:41 GMT
fans apparently tried to punch his bentley windows
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