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Post by howAREya on Feb 8, 2015 18:59:45 GMT
There would have been a fear whoever started for them that our box would have been bombarded
Might laugh at this but aside from being cautious anyway I actually think we came for the draw in this.
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Post by Hammy on Feb 8, 2015 19:15:22 GMT
Nothing I've seen today is making me change my mind about VG. Yes if RVP and especially Falcao took their chances then it was a game we could of won. But that is besides the point.
Most of the season we have played like this and have scraped wins, today we scraped a draw. Our standard of play is terrible. It looks to me that VG has taken all the flair out of the team by his regimental regime. No one is looking happy in their role and the only culpable (for me) is VG.
He's had long enough to know what the PL is all about but he just doesn't learn with his team selections and substitutions.
Miroslav pointed out our only "real" CM player we had was Blind and I still wouldn't have him as a given CM having played there only one season in Holland. Continually playing Rooney as CM is really getting on my goat especially given the form of RVP and Falcao.
In short if VG wants to play like Stoke then he should fuck off and manage them instead of turning us into them. Even Moyes managed to get Januzaj playing last season. This season he doesn't even look like he belongs in the reserves. Di Maria arguably la ligas best player last season is looking worse than average. Mata can change games but not if he's used as a cart horse and I'm not even going to comment on Herrera.
Even under SAF who in his last season had a lot worse squad than we have now we managed to play attractive football to some degree. Yes SAF was a bit of a dictator but VG takes that word to a whole new level.
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Post by howAREya on Feb 8, 2015 19:27:18 GMT
www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2015/Feb/Louis-van-Gaal-hails-team-spirit-after-draw-at-West-Ham.aspx?newsid=D76D9215-423D-4FEB-BFF0-8280FC902BD3&pageNo=1"I think we played very badly in the first half and we showed a lot of spirit in the second half, especially after the goal,” he said. “We gave that goal away I think. Then we played football but you have to do it from the first minute". And there he's said the magic words. Lost count of the number of times this season a description to that degree is given Well, now, it's your job, to get them playing like that as I said for 90 minutes. That's what you get paid to do. Only conclusions are either the players aren't listening to him or he's a spoofer. I'd find it hard to believe it's the latter given the character and stature of Louis Van Gaal. Now is the time he has to go out and earn his stripes with just over a 3rd of the season to go. The time for excuses is over
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Post by matt on Feb 8, 2015 19:55:15 GMT
Nothing I've seen today is making me change my mind about VG. Yes if RVP and especially Falcao took their chances then it was a game we could of won. But that is besides the point. Most of the season we have played like this and have scraped wins, today we scraped a draw. Our standard of play is terrible. It looks to me that VG has taken all the flair out of the team by his regimental regime. No one is looking happy in their role and the only culpable (for me) is VG. He's had long enough to know what the PL is all about but he just doesn't learn with his team selections and substitutions. Miroslav pointed out our only "real" CM player we had was Blind and I still wouldn't have him as a given CM having played there only one season in Holland. Continually playing Rooney as CM is really getting on my goat especially given the form of RVP and Falcao. In short if VG wants to play like Stoke then he should fuck off and manage them instead of turning us into them. Even Moyes managed to get Januzaj playing last season. This season he doesn't even look like he belongs in the reserves. Di Maria arguably la ligas best player last season is looking worse than average. Mata can change games but not if he's used as a cart horse and I'm not even going to comment on Herrera. Even under SAF who in his last season had a lot worse squad than we have now we managed to play attractive football to some degree. Yes SAF was a bit of a dictator but VG takes that word to a whole new level. To be fair, while a part of me likes LVG's "tactical solidity" and "rigidity", part of me also agrees with your comments completely. He just doesn't seem able to find the right balance, and it's going to cost us massively. If he thinks he is on the right track, he is getting delusional. I appreciate the fact that we have looked more solid as a unit, but I also worry about the lack of fluidity and football in all this. All we do is play long, meaningless balls forward, expecting Falcao and RVP to make do with it. There is no construction from midfield, little penetration from the flanks. The only positives for me is that our defense seems to get better and better. It's funny how most people keep thinking our defence sucks, when in fact it's our attacking football that leaves much to be desired. |
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Post by Hammy on Feb 8, 2015 20:19:00 GMT
What's more worrying for me Matt is the players don't seem to be playing with any heart or passion. Whether it's because they don't understand his tactics or don't agree with them I just don't know.
howAREya made a good point in the shoutbox that when we go behind it's as if the players are saying fuck VGs tactics and start playing the way they know which is when we become more effective.
All we can hope for now is that we finish in the top 4 and that VG gets the signings he wants in the summer although I'm still not sold on his "philosophy" being a success in the PL. Even though that Scholes has gone we still have a lot better squad than under Moyes but if we don't play to our strengths we are going to keep seeing these types of performances more often than not.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 20:18:57 GMT
We don't have a midfield to play the way people want, the way VG wants, until that's resolved it is what it is.
But I agree with Carragher (FFS)...
"West Ham were hanging on and people say Man Utd got a lucky goal but it's not luck," Carragher said on Sky Sports after the game.
"They did it again - they've done it plenty of times. How many times have we said they haven't played well and got a point?
"I admire Van Gaal for what he did - he brought [Marouane] Fellaini on. I admire the fact he threw his values out of the window and that's where the goal came from."
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Post by Hammy on Feb 8, 2015 20:35:31 GMT
Playing Blind who has had one full season under his belt as CM along with 2 attacking players doesn't help his cause either. VG has the players at his disposal to make us a more balanced side he just doesn't choose to use them. West Ham hanging on??? Not in the game I was watching. If not for De Gea the game could have been out of sight before we equalised. As for admiring him for bringing on Fellaini and throwing his values out the window  For good chunks of the game all we did was throw long balls towards RVP and Falcao which is what we continued to do when Fellaini came on. Once again another game where we were devoid of ideas and to be honest lucky to come away with a point. |
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Post by howAREya on Feb 8, 2015 20:51:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 21:01:00 GMT
Difference between searching long range passes and trying to probe, and what happened in that last 15 minute spell when they started skying  the ball into the box just for the sake of forcing a mistake / looking for a knock down, like Wimbledon used to do. VG does not have the one component that every midfield needs to be successful in this current BPL and that's the pace and power that gives control. We just don't have a Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Arturo Vidal or a Paul Pogba. Until it's there that side won't tick as it should. Every combination currently at the club is going to look either slow or lightweight, or both. It also won't tick until that defence can operate in a composed manner and properly feed the midfield and turn defence into attack, United style. You better pray Summer goes well. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 21:01:41 GMT
I did laugh at that, he deserved to get that one in. |
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Post by Hammy on Feb 8, 2015 21:37:45 GMT
I'm an atheist but over the summer I'll be finding god and praying with the best of them I'm not saying VG has it easy because he obviously!y doesn't and I do agree that we need that key signing if not in both CM and CB at the very least in CM but it sometimes seems VG is his own worst enemy with team selections and substitutions and tactics. After he left Barcelona my opinion of him went right down hill and I wasn't sold on him becoming our manager but he's here now and I really do want to get behind him but whatever the circumstances it's been difficult to do that. We've had over 2 thirds of the season gone so by now he should have some idea of his formation even if he doesn't have the key element needed. For me it's still no excuse for some of the performances we've seen this season with the players he has at his disposal. I think the most important thing he has to learn in the PL is you have to play to your strengths and not worry about every single team put in front of you. Doing that just stagnates play. Setting up defensively against Yeovil and Cambridge in the first game was an embarrassment for me. With the squad we have we should be wiping these teams off the park and not using excuses when it doesn't come off. |
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Post by howAREya on Feb 8, 2015 21:54:33 GMT
I'm holding back all thoughts on the summer until I see where we finish up. It's results now and not performances that matter, and getting that all important top 4 spot.
Couldn't give a #### now how we do it once we get the top 4 at this stage, with the competition that's around us for it and the fixtures we got left.
Just once we get it.
I'd be amazed if any manager gets a big warchest to spend in a few months time without UCL football a 2nd year on the trot.
It all rests on that, we knew as much from the start of the season.
14 biggggggggg games on the way
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 21:55:36 GMT
He's kind of forced into doing what he's doing, which is tailoring every single match according to the opposition because he doesn't have the necessary parts yet. So there's an element of truth in what you say. I'm pretty sure if he had Scholes and Keane available they would be default starters every week like they were for Fergie and you'd see a settled pattern emerge. Albeit with a lot more fluidity than Fergie, interpret that as "fucking about" or "tactical genius" as you like.
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Post by spens1 on Feb 9, 2015 0:20:16 GMT
fucking shit performance, but its clear this is a rebuilding season so we aren't going to win, however still frustrating that we lost, also falcao had the worst game i have ever seen out of him by far. what the fuck happened to him
wasted opportunity to put some daylight between us and tottenham
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Post by Red Or Dead on Feb 9, 2015 2:23:57 GMT
What exactly gives you the impression that we lost the game Spens?
We were away from home against a very resilient side in West Ham and got a draw, how bad?
I realise that a win would of put us only 3 behind City,especially against Hull who were beaten 3-0 at home by Newcastle last week,and City drew at home to them, but it didn't happen, ok, we missed an opportunity, but we are still 3rd with all whats being going on.
I'll take that all day long for now, and won't be pressing the panic button yet.
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