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Post by Kaushik on May 2, 2016 15:25:12 GMT
Just my assumption, no one has no real evidence of anything  Just the way the amount of injuries we get compared to other teams. Thats the way Youth have been under LVG, they come and play well and then get worse. I am not saying everyone will become bad but we cant trust them to play like this next season going by what happened previously. What makes you to think he will do better than this season? |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 15:47:40 GMT
Because that's his managerial pattern throughout his career, he's no instant fix because of what he tries to do and the direction he takes players.
Youth players are inconsistent by nature, nature of the beast. And new players need a full season behind them before they start to establish properly.
Any settled side performs better than an unsettled one, law of the football universe (look at Leicester ffs lol).
Add a CB, CM and a Mane and you've got a squad that could definitely challenge.
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Post by Kaushik on May 2, 2016 16:03:09 GMT
His methods might have worked in other leagues but I just cant see it happening here. From what I saw, he still doesn't have a plan B and struggles against really defensive teams.
And I don't think for once he named our best starting XI, he constantly fucked up something. These are the things which is not going to change next season if he is incharge.
Also our rivals are going to have some good managers as well and we end up with this dinosaur. That is just a disaster waiting to happen.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 19:15:02 GMT
His methods are actually starting to come good, what's missing is the consistency of performance over 90 minutes (it's nowhere near what it should be) and the odd player. Breaking stubborn teams down comes down to relentlessness and the ability to be relentless, which equates as consistency of performance over 90.
He's a tinkerer, always has been but even he knows he hasn't got the squad he wants yet.
'Dinosaur' who's forgotten more about football than most current managers know and who has a great record over the top teams, teams challenging, but falls short over stubborn mid-table sides - which is a man power issue. Dinosaur, nah. Stubborn, yes.
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Post by matt on May 2, 2016 20:42:59 GMT
Dinosaur, nah. Stubborn, yes. Yeah I agree completely from a tactical point of view. But I do think though that he is a bit of a dinosaur in men managing. He may be a great tactitian and know his stuff about football and how to build a team philosophy, but he has no clue as to how to get the best out of an individual and this has been our downfall because we never got a player able to make the difference when needed. We have been rather solid as a team, but it's our inability to have that extra passion and that extra spark that has cost us more often than not. SAF was a master at this, how many times did we see a rather average player put in an amazing performance and "save" the team just because he was full of ocnfidence? LVG treats his players like robots on the pitch, expecting them to follow the philosophy/game plan but there is no leader when things go wrong... |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 20:56:41 GMT
I can't deny that and I'm puzzled by it, and it makes me wonder if age has finally kicked in (not being able to relate, etc). It would be the one area where a different head might be beneficial, ironically I'm not convinced Mourinho is the man for that. While he'll get 60% of players running through walls for him, the other 40% want to knife him in the back.
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Post by Hammy on May 2, 2016 21:53:07 GMT
It really is a tricky situation we're in. I agree with Ed about Mou. There has always seemed to be pro/anti factions in the dressing room when he's around. Is that something we really want after the last couple of managers?
VG of course has been a successful manager. He has the titles to prove it but he's another one that always has controversy just lurking around the corner. Even when winning titles his methods and style of play were always brought into question. So much so that it got him thrown out of clubs like Barca and Bayern. So if he does stay (please God no) then we should be prepared for more of the same.
A lot of people rate Simeone. There's no doubting he's a winner but that also comes at a price. That price is anti football. Yes players would run through a brick wall for him but do we really want more of what we're seeing under VG even if it did bring us titles? I for one wouldn't want to see it.
The only one for me is Pochettino. I've followed his career ever since he managed Español and even though it took him a while to settle he took them from relegation candidates to a mid table side that played good football and the more experience he's gaining the better he's getting. He's someone who always seems to have good relations with his players and you can see that they want to implement his methods on the pitch. Something that VG has failed miserably at.
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Post by Kaushik on May 3, 2016 6:49:25 GMT
I still don't get why he is considered as a 'Tactical Genius'. Ok he has a good plan A, I will give him that. But if it doesn't work, then he is useless, he has no real impact during the game, we play the same way for the whole 90 mins. And his substitutions are almost always wrong.
Also you say 'he hasn't got the squad he wants'. I would blame him for that, he spent 250 Mil and still hasn't got a squad he wants?
This squad will do much better under a decent manager. I don't agree that this squad is only good enough for a 4th place finish.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 13:37:57 GMT
Flick a coin in the air as to whether anyone else could squeeze more out of this current squad, I suspect Klopp and Pochettino could, but I think VG can also. Mourinho probably would but would probably destroy more than he creates. It's not as cut and dried as you seem to think.
He's had one proper Summer to do a clear out, 21 out and 7 in, net spend around 130 m (ish). He was never going to restock an entire first team and squad in one full window and it's fantasy to pretend otherwise.
Having no 'plan B' is down to the players as much as the manager, there's a genuine lack of imagination, guile and pace in that side especially in transition, as well as mental fortitude.
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Post by Kaushik on May 3, 2016 14:27:23 GMT
It doesn't matter how much the net spending is, because the players who go out are not on his plans. I only care about the players he bought, I give him credit for that. All the players he bought are good except Rojo.
I can see many managers doing well with this squad, all our rivals had a terrible season and we only trying to get into top 4 speaks volumes about his achievement.
He speaks about pace and guile and puts Mata in the right wing.
Having no plan b doesn't have to do anything with the players. LVG doesn't have one and thats the problem.
Had one proper window? when he came in we bought about 5 players in that window. So I would count that too.
Put a proper line-up week-in week-out and you will see what this squad is really capable of. He is clearly holding us back mate
He has brought in some good players, now its time for someone to takeover who knows how to utilize them.
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Post by Dave on May 3, 2016 15:47:46 GMT
Fellaini and Huth charged for violent conduct by FA.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 16:36:45 GMT
It doesn't matter how much the net spending is, because the players who go out are not on his plans. I only care about the players he bought, I give him credit for that. All the players he bought are good except Rojo. It does matter because he picked up the pieces of Moyes' tenure and was late joining in the first season because of WC commitments. People, and media in particular, keep blowing it out of their arse about '250m' but that's not the whole story is it. When it shakes out at around 130m with 21 players leaving and 7 coming in then clearly you have a player deficit and a rebuilding job is under way. I can see many managers doing well with this squad, all our rivals had a terrible season and we only trying to get into top 4 speaks volumes about his achievement. Given the same set of circumstances as VG has had, I think not. Given a straight start next season, then probably yes. He speaks about pace and guile and puts Mata in the right wing. And yet when it works and we beat Liverpool he's a genius. And having to put Mata there because you're out of options through injury / thin squad then I'd say he did well covering the cracks with that one personally. And yes, we are short of pace, Mata is a great example, so is Carrick, Fellaini, Schweinsteiger - Herrera and Morgan aren't blessed with winged heels either. Having no plan b doesn't have to do anything with the players. LVG doesn't have one and thats the problem. You have to make do with what you've got, the Fellaini option failed because Fellaini is generally wank, we have no game changers on the bench - look at the squad. Had one proper window? when he came in we bought about 5 players in that window. So I would count that too. He was at the world cup for most of the first window. And still managed to stabilise the club and get top 4, job done. First proper window was this last one where the cull started (as above). Put a proper line-up week-in week-out and you will see what this squad is really capable of. He is clearly holding us back mate Agree on the first point, I've already said stable teams generally out perform unstable ones. If Shaw hadn't got injured when we were looking good and were establishing decent patterns of play at the beginning of the season - and the rest of the injury pile ups hadn't happened, there's no doubt we would be comfortable top 4 right now under VG. He has brought in some good players, now its time for someone to takeover who knows how to utilize them. all the managers you might want are no longer available :lol: |
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Post by Kaushik on May 5, 2016 2:29:08 GMT
You are the real Ed, aren't you? The only one who thinks LVG deserves another season is you and Ed and obviously you have his name as Username  Lets just agree to disagree. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 8:58:58 GMT
Didn't think you'd be able to refute facts. Trouble with the vast majority of fans, they run on emotion and distort a time line in their head.
And I never said I wanted him to stay, I just said it wouldn't be the end of the world if he finished his contract due to lack of suitable candidates.
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Post by Hammy on May 5, 2016 9:37:33 GMT
Facts are always refuted when people have a different point of view It takes years to build a reputation as a football manager. The best 2 options have gone to our biggest rivals. Let's say VG stays another season  At the end of next season who is there to suddenly appear out of the woodwork that will make most people think he's the one, like we all thought of Klopp or Pep? Just because some up and coming manager has a tremendous season next season doesn't mean jack shit. Look at the season Ranieri has had (I'm not saying he's up and coming) but are people clamouring for him to become our new manager? If VG did stay we are going to be in exactly the same position as we're in now so why wait? Why stay with someone who will probably spends 100s of millions more only to hand these players off to someone else? Especially someone who has a reputation of a melt down in his 3rd season, who will blame everyone when things don't go his way (nothing new there then) will have a bust up with the press (it is coming) and say they're making his job impossible and fuck off anyway? |
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At the end of next season who is there to suddenly appear out of the woodwork that will make most people think he's the one, like we all thought of Klopp or Pep?